Michael & Dustin find themselves reminiscing about the old VideoBros audio logo, weighing nostalgia against a new sound. But whatever. They also dive into the mess of unsuitable jobs, moving hassles, and Valentine's Day chaos. Later they explore Disney sequels, AI in storytelling, and how tech is changing photography and self-branding in music. Finally, they end by talking about the quest for an empty inbox and pursuing dreams in filmmaking.
Michael & Dustin find themselves reminiscing about the old VideoBros audio logo, weighing nostalgia against a new sound. But whatever. They also dive into the mess of unsuitable jobs, moving hassles, and Valentine's Day chaos. Later they explore Disney sequels, AI in storytelling, and how tech is changing photography and self-branding in music. Finally, they end by talking about the quest for an empty inbox and pursuing dreams in filmmaking.
Boy, I reckon you're listening to the video. Bros pile cast.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thanks for tuning in. We're really glad to both be doing this every week boo-doo, boo-doo.
Speaker 1:I gotta bring that back, huh.
Speaker 2:I definitely look, bring what back, remember? Oh, that was our theme song. That was like a dial tone or whatever. It was like two little ding-ding you're like. I scoured the internet for a new theme song for us. I think I found it.
Speaker 1:It's not even a things. It's not a theme song, it's just like a. What do they call that in the industry? They call it like a. It's not a jingle either. It's just a. There's a name for it. Oh.
Speaker 2:I don't know. Yeah, never heard of this either. I can't think of some examples.
Speaker 1:It's almost like an audio logo, you know, but they don't call it that right, I'm thinking Southwest has one, southwest has a little ding.
Speaker 2:That's what it sounds like when you hit the button.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's right.
Speaker 2:Attendant and that they use that. And then there's a grocery store in Texas called H eb and for a while their commercial was sort of the sound of like Scanning an item at the cashier that beep they were using. That beep is kind of like part of their jingle or whatever.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. Well, there you go. There you have it. We don't have it anymore. Maybe I could swipe it from an old episode and start using it again.
Speaker 2:Maybe you could come up with something newer, better and bigger.
Speaker 1:I Think that's really what made our podcast special to begin with.
Speaker 2:Was that it sucked, or you mean that stupid chime?
Speaker 1:it kind of let people know when they were listening to a different episode.
Speaker 2:Oh, I see Cuz cuz. You imagine a lot of binge listeners.
Speaker 1:Hey, we had like five more downloads this week than we did last week, so I think it's also what does that bring us up to 35? Whoa, whoa, whoa don't get ahead of yourself. Oh, 25, okay, oh whoa. Hey, easy there.
Speaker 2:Hey. So I want to ask you if you ever do this. I took a job that I knew would suck, but I always tell myself, like man, I could always just quit. Like if this sucks, like at this gig, like let me just see what's doing and like if this turns out to be a bunch of bullshit, like I could always just quit.
Speaker 1:I know this particular one.
Speaker 2:I don't have a contract. It's all kind of like a word-of-mouth deal, so it's always like, well, I could just stop. And then I find out that actually I can't because of my personality.
Speaker 1:I was just gonna say everything I start. It's your personality, dude. You're not that kind of person.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but I but Detelling myself that I could quit. It allows me to take stuff that I shouldn't take.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it allows you to make really dumb decisions over and over and over. No offense, thanks, but I'm, I'm Wrong, I'm literally.
Speaker 2:But it's also I, you know I'm taking the best opportunities I have. I just have. I just happen to be quite starved of good opportunities. I, you know it turns out that like Burning your life to the ground and starting over like every eight years is like it's not a good. It's not a good way to like build success in the long run. Like constantly resetting the clock like you just graduated college last week as you get into your late 30s, like it's no, like it's not good, it's not good. I should not have, you know, I should not have tried to sprint span my career across three different cities and eventually a fourth, because I'm definitely not staying here forever.
Speaker 1:It is a good way to test your marriage, though. So I think you're you're onto something there. I you know a dude.
Speaker 2:That's going okay. I feel like for the fact that today is Valentine's Day and I'm not prepared. Yeah did you get your wife? You're not wearing your edible underwear. That's a I'm sure it's not wearing the old edible thong, I don't, I don't know. I'm sure my wife would be afraid it's not gluten-free or something.
Speaker 1:So yeah, I'm sure that's the, that's the whole that's the problem.
Speaker 2:That's the primary concern. No, would you get your wife for Valentine's Day?
Speaker 1:We're gonna go to lunch after this podcast.
Speaker 2:Lunch, lunch, romantic.
Speaker 1:Well, we got a we got an eight-year-old well, he's gonna be eight tomorrow and we got a four and a half year old, so I don't know how.
Speaker 2:So your kids have really close birthdays, or you just celebrated your kids birthday, not on his birthday, so didn't you have a birthday party like two weeks ago.
Speaker 1:Just on Saturday.
Speaker 2:It was this week. Yeah, okay, so same kid, right? Yeah, yeah, okay, you just don't celebrate a kid's birthday on a Wednesday. That makes sense.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're on a Thursday. I mean the party, the party ends up being, you know, we just do it the weekend before the birthday. So, right, yeah, no. But I you know what I do buy my flower, my wife flowers, every, not every week, but every few weeks, oh, that's pretty Kind of wasteful of your funds.
Speaker 2:What I mean.
Speaker 1:Oh, you don't have you did too often.
Speaker 2:Not only is it not special, but it's also like a you're draining your personal finances.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I it's not. I don't love it, but it's one of those things where I feel like you kind of have to do it.
Speaker 2:Did you set a precedent early on that you can't ever let down?
Speaker 1:No, I actually started this very late. But yeah, I don't know. My wife likes flowers and so where do you get them? Costco.
Speaker 2:Yeah, see, I'm like the same, like I'll get you flowers, but only if I happen to be going to Sam's.
Speaker 1:Club. I mean they're the same gonna overpay. Yeah, they're the same flowers, just did a different same flower considerably better bargain not necessarily.
Speaker 2:Costco or Sam's Club or that type of store.
Speaker 1:Well, here's what I am gonna do. I am actually gonna go get some different flowers on my way to lunch that are that are nicer than usual. Like the Costco flowers are decent for every day.
Speaker 2:I flowers on Valentine's Day. Yeah, they're gonna see you coming. You're about to spend $200 on some ugly ass shit.
Speaker 1:No, I know we have this tiny little grocery store near our house and they stock some like really unique, like how would you? What's the word?
Speaker 2:Oh, tee Tee, something like that kind of arrangements and they're tiny, they're not like massive, but they look like arrangements.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they look really cool, like they have like these little fluffy things in there, like stuff that you're not gonna find it Costco or whatever. So you know, jazz it a little.
Speaker 2:I am here, it is approaching noon. I have nothing, so I still have to like run out and get stuff. So I think I'm gonna do grocery shopping so I have an excuse to be out of the house and get those things you know what my, my parents in law they go to?
Speaker 1:they both drive to CVS in the same car and they go inside and they pick out cards for each other at the same. Then they hand them to each other in the store and then they don't, I think they wait till they get home to exchange them.
Speaker 2:Oh, I've heard a couple is giving it to each other in the grocery store and then like putting them back and then going home and being like you know oh that was the thought that counts. Like we're not. We're not gonna spin $12. We can, we'll just, we'll just. We'll both spend like 30 minutes and when we pick the best card for each other, we'll hand each other, will hug and kiss right there and target and then get the fuck out of there without dropping a dime.
Speaker 2:I yeah maybe it's Starbucks on the way out. Buy yourself a coffee instead of throwing it a stupid greeting card.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I wish my family was that frugal.
Speaker 2:God, it wouldn't be great. I would be honest. My wife is pretty frugal. My wife is a yeah, she's real cheap. I mean, I'm definitely the one that has a spinning problem, not her.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're always telling me about something you bought You're always worried she's gonna find out.
Speaker 2:I bought some shit today, oh.
Speaker 1:Jesus.
Speaker 2:I bought. I bought a bunch of safety cables.
Speaker 2:It's kind of crazy how long I've been lighting stuff like without any safety. So, yeah, yeah, no, I have a job coming up where I'm a grip and I just I need some safety cables for some of the lighting stuff I'm gonna be doing, and also I need one to start. That's all the. All the crew guys on set hold their tapes you know like you have to have a bunch of different kind of tape or whatever and they just run a safety cable through it with the Care beaners and clip it on your, your, your belt or whatever. And so I was like, well, a new one for that, I might as well get some for my lights and just like, start being more, a little bit more responsible. I'm Friday, I have a job as a DP, but there's no gaffer, so I'm doing my own lighting and stuff.
Speaker 1:Who's getting double penetrated?
Speaker 2:That will be me For sure.
Speaker 1:On the pay side of things right.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, I was looking for a job on set and I mistakenly said I will do literally anything to get on set. So oh yeah, next next thing, you know, I'm bleeding from the anus.
Speaker 1:It's dude, it's tough out in Atlanta Hot laner.
Speaker 2:It's not good, dude. It is so fucking doom and gloom. I know I've already said this a bunch, but like I'm not crazy, because I've talked to a lot of people and they say the same thing Like the boom is over, the work force is like super over saturated, and then, like maybe the industry is like somewhat in collapse, and it's not just here. Like I'm in enough online groups and stuff to see that like people in LA are complaining, people in New York are complaining, like the whole country. Everybody is just like okay when, so that there's never going to be work again, or you know, and some people are back on set. Good for them.
Speaker 2:But it's pretty doom and gloom and I don't know what I'm going to do. I know that I have a show that's about to start and I'm just hoping that by the time that show ends, that the industry is booming, or maybe not even booming. Just, I just need, like you know, another opportunity. You know it'd be great as to get on a show that lasted longer than six weeks. If I got on something that lasted like nine months or something, it'd be pretty solid. I don't know, I don't know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, it kind of reminds me of that thing that you said to me the other day where I was like all excited about. I was like oh, have you seen the new trailer for twisters? And you said Hollywood refuses to make an original movie.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Like dude, not like, not what. They won't come up with one idea. What's ridiculous, is it?
Speaker 1:is. It's just like kind of a remake of the original twister movie which I loved, which came out in the 90s which is still fine.
Speaker 2:It's a great movie. Just watch that one. It's a great movie, but I was like, oh, they're kind of like, like it.
Speaker 1:It made you, made me realize like, oh, I'm getting excited about something that I shouldn't be already excited about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's how bad things. Glad I could rain on your parade.
Speaker 1:Well, that's how bad things are.
Speaker 2:Cinematically is like did you see what happened to?
Speaker 1:remake some movie I liked from the 90s that I saw with my mom when she was still alive. I'm very excited.
Speaker 2:Did you see the? There were comments from that Bob Iger that owns Disney, and he's just said that we've made. We've made way too many sequels. I'm not saying that we're not going to keep making them, but we've made too many. Like he says we've made, he's admitted that they made his mistake and then in the very next sentence he's like don't give me wrong, we're still going to keep doing it. We're not going to change anything, hey, but he's. I wish you have to make sure that you know the sequels are worth making because they have good stories. It's like shut up.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:They're basically like hey, don't they realize, if they make new shit for 10 years, then they'll have something to rip off for the next 30. Just make new shit for 10 years.
Speaker 1:I think their plan is we hey, listen, ai needs us to upload something to get started. So we need to upload the original Twister movie so that we can make Twisters for free. Right, it needs a model to work off of. Do you watch Super Bowl? I did, yeah, I watched Super Bowl. I did, yeah, I watched. I'd say I watched the first half really intently. I kind of missed the Like late stage of the third quarter into the early fourth quarter, but I watched everything else. But yeah, we had people over and it's really hard to. It's really hard to pay attention when everybody's screaming and running around and stuff. But I did give my kids Game Boy colors that day. Like I strategically timed it so that they would be obsessed with those and kind of leave me alone. And but the problem my Super Bowl problem is that I made a lot of jokes that other people did not love, but I was in my own house so I could get really inappropriate, yeah, sexually no not really sexually.
Speaker 2:Politically, you did your libertarian bullshit in front of normal people.
Speaker 1:I just joked about like the guitar player during the halftime show. She's black and I joked about my wife was like who's that? And I was like that's the same girl that was going to play guitar for Michael Jackson. Remember that white girl? Remember how that is like? That was like one of the like last famous clips of Michael Jackson is him warming up for his like show that he was going to start performing.
Speaker 2:Well, there was a documentary.
Speaker 1:Like white girl, who's awesome at guitar. Well, now they had a black girl that's awesome at guitar. And so that's.
Speaker 2:I was that girl that calls herself her.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, yeah, I didn't I actually didn't know who it was, and my wife was like who's that?
Speaker 2:I hate that.
Speaker 1:I was like that's the white girl from the Jackson tour, except now she transitioned and she's black. Nobody like that.
Speaker 2:That's the worst name, since there was a band called the band, like in the 70s, there was a band called the band. But isn't it? H fucking Dot?
Speaker 1:It's so so it's so stupid, so doesn't it mean something.
Speaker 2:Honestly, it's s dot, t, dot, o o p I d. I don't know. I fucking hate it. It drives me nuts. I just like I don't even care how good she is a guitar or how great her music is. I just don't want to support her because she had the balls to call herself her.
Speaker 1:I don't think she was a pronoun, I don't think she was actually playing, but 51% of the planet is her. I give her the better Whatever? I give her the benefit of the doubt. She's probably good at guitar.
Speaker 2:Maybe less. She changed her name to like Sarah or something that I'd like her Like, and also like what's her real name, like what's your mom called you.
Speaker 1:Man, you're being way more hard on her than I was.
Speaker 2:So I had to do credits for this movie and somebody who's like basically a background actress you know that he, you know they, they go, you know like what's your name or whatever and somebody in this movie their name is that Ray, and it it fucking like I. Just I would never cast a person that says like what's your name? My name is that John. Like I, just like anybody who's like I'm the king. Like no, you are not working on this.
Speaker 1:Because you can't do that.
Speaker 2:I just it's so fucking arrogant and cocky and stupid. And it's stupid that I'm just, I just wouldn't. And it's like man the ball's to give yourself a name like that. And then you're a background, you're an extra, you don't even have dialogue and you you know what I mean. It's like, it's so stupid. It's the same as like you've seen this as a meme a bunch of times or whatever.
Speaker 2:But like just four random fucking dudes that went to college together go to Vegas and they're like Vegas ain't ready for us. And I was like you know it is, you know it is, it's the same thing. Like dude, just get over yourself. Like if you do good work, people are going to recognize your, your good work. Like you know the expression make a name for yourself. It doesn't mean give yourself a stupid fucking name. It means go do good work and then, like your regular ass boring name will become something because of what you've done. You know my name, dustin Stelly. I don't have a name, but if I do enough good work long enough and if I make a great work that people recognize, then maybe somebody will go oh, that's Dustin Stelly. I'm not going to get ahead of my career by going. I'm the camera, god, you should.
Speaker 1:But you do need a rebranding. You should call yourself the little piss. The little piss, the little pee, nothing little about me. Oh, there already was a little peep. You could be the tiny peep, tiny peep. Sure, I'll get right on that Tiny peen.
Speaker 2:If anybody should rename, it's you because your name is Michael. I mean, besides, like anybody named Michael, John, Jonathan, Rachel, like those names where it should, there's just already like if you already know 10 people with the same name as you, then maybe you should think about it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're in a good spot. I think you could just start going by Dusty, though, and you'd be better off.
Speaker 2:I'll never go by Dusty. Dusty, I'm not a child, I'm a grown ass man, dusty is a name for a fucking teenager.
Speaker 1:Yeah, or somebody who lives in like a really dry climate.
Speaker 2:I mean it doesn't really matter as much anymore, but there was already a Dusty in the Colorado, you know, in our market and our industry and stuff, and I did not want to be associated with that guy.
Speaker 1:Oh, come on, we did not get a. Why you gotta do that, why you gotta do that? I worked for him like 10 or 12 times why we found out that we're not compatible. I actually don't know him that well, but he's closer to me now than you. He also lives in Colorado.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he lives in Tennessee.
Speaker 1:So you guys could like you could kind of start up like a whole new thing.
Speaker 2:Mm, hmm, mm, hmm, mm, hmm. I mean not gonna, but I'm not gonna.
Speaker 1:Hmm, well, hmm, hmm, hmm. Hey, have you heard of this Fuji X1 pan camera or whatever? I know you're getting into film photography. Well, you've kind of always been into it, which I, I, I started getting into it a few years ago.
Speaker 2:I'm not getting into film photography, not at all.
Speaker 1:Why not? I Thought you were.
Speaker 2:I thought you liked it.
Speaker 1:You mean still photography well, I know you're getting into still, but like if you're gonna do that you should also be Kind of into film I number one. It's in vogue Number two, so it'll make you a more valuable second shooter, but also second yeah, if you want to be a second shooter, it'll make you more valuable. No, no.
Speaker 2:I want to shoot digital medium format photography.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's up. Most people. Yeah, I mean that's cool.
Speaker 2:I don't want to shoot film, why not? I do have, I do have a film I do have. So here's the deal I got have a film camera. That was that I inherited. Oh, I have two actually, but the better of them. It's a Canon a1 or 81 a1. I don't know.
Speaker 2:I Sent it off to a shop to get you know like, to kind of get like overhauled. You know like change out the gaskets and Lubricate everything and put a good battery in there and replace the battery door that was broken, a couple things like that, and just get it up and running. And then I was it was gonna be just kind of a walking around Vacation camera. And then I also had aspirations of using it To take, to take stills on On film, to use as references for color grading later. So like if I'm doing a film, like to be to be able to build custom Lutz, but also just to like, like if I want to make a film and I want it to look like film you could buy. Third, you could. You could buy actual motion picture film, like vision 3 stock or whatever, and Go in a dark room and you could load it onto a Canister to fit into like a still camera, a 35 millimeter camera, and so you could just use like a vision 3, as though you're just taking stills, get those developed and then like, use those as references.
Speaker 2:Or you could also like you could also just build a lot that looks like portrait 800, which is like not really common, but you know it's a beautiful film. And when people say things look like film, like that doesn't really mean anything, because film can look like so many different things depending on how you're pushing it and pulling it and how you know exactly what your development is. You know what stock you're using, what filters you're using, or using a daylight, a tungsten, a 200, a 400, 800? Are you pushing it two stops, pulling it two stops? So when people say it looks like film, it's like, well, that could mean a lot of things, but like maybe I discover like, oh, actually really like the look of this. You know, portrait 800 is that's the one I think is my favorite film.
Speaker 2:But anyway, I really, I actually really like 800 yeah so I, um, anyway, so I got this camera fixed up and I was gonna use it on vacation, and then I shot a roll of film in Costa Rica and no, sorry, not Costa Rica.
Speaker 1:Puerto.
Speaker 2:Rico, it broke and.
Speaker 2:Get the film out without ruining it and the the winding mechanism is lost, and so I have to get new parts and get it repaired again before I can go back into it. And I haven't gone down that road because many year. But what you're referring to, as far as I'm quote-unquote getting into photography, I am heavily considering making a move toward Earning a living with still photography, but I'm still in the consideration phase. If this happens, it'll be getting going like this fall, and so I'm hoping that I end up getting enough work on film sets between now and then that it kind of never happens. But I am deeply contemplating it because you know, essentially I moved here to work in the film industry and then the film industry seems to have died or Maybe never really existed in the way I thought in the first place, or maybe is doing great and they just fucking don't want anything to do with me.
Speaker 2:But whatever is going on, I can't just sit around making zero dollars a year forever and I've got to come up with a way to earn a living and I Just can't think of anything better than you know, getting into photography and trying to shoot weddings and stuff. Like if I'm gonna go back into the wedding industry. I I've done wedding videography as a startup like four times. I don't want to do it again and the way AI is changing editing for still photography I Just think it's a much, much, much better business. I think you make way more money with way less hours and way less, and Do you?
Speaker 1:think that's man, yeah, but do you think the AI part might kind of End up screwing the industry a little?
Speaker 2:Like is there gonna start to be like people that are willing to go shoot a whole wedding for 500 bucks and Actually do really good work?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Maybe, but maybe not, I don't know. The thing is that that already has existed, like there has always been AI away for you to know not AI but there has always been cheap ass people doing cheap ass work. I mean, you can get on a Facebook group for weddings or whatever and be like hey, I'm getting married at this date, blah, blah, blah, need a photographer. My budget is $400 and I guarantee you, like 12 people, be like I'll do it. So at the end of the day, I think I Think it's gonna make it even more important how you shoot. You know, I think it's gonna Maybe be a little bit less and less of an emphasis on how you manage your editing and more and more of an emphasis on how you actually shoot, how you use off-camera flash and camera settings, how you compose your shots. You know traditional, actual photography. And then it's also still business like how good are you at sales? How good are you at networking with other vendors? You know, like Some people, just like they just don't even have the taste to be able to do the job. I don't know, man, I posted in a group. I don't know if we already talked about this on the podcast, but In my deeply considering this move. I posted in a group Just kind of asking what, what kind of cameras are most Popular in this particular market. If I want to get work as a second shooter, you know what? Which road should I go down? Kind of Canon versus Sony, and really I'm interested in Fuji, but I don't think anybody else is using that. So I feel like if like that's gonna hold me back if I go that way.
Speaker 2:One of the comments a guy goes man, I shot this with a hundred dollar camera. It doesn't matter the camera, it's about the photographer using it. And then the picture was so bad it was, it was like a group picture, but like the people don't even look like they know they're being photographed. Like some of the people are looking in the camera, some of the people look like they're just walking up getting ready. It's like a super low resolution, like shit color there's, like it's not framed. There's just nothing good about the picture at all.
Speaker 2:Like I guarantee you could take a better picture with a phone If you just go like hey, everybody, I'm gonna take your picture on one, two, three, I don't know. And it's the point is, I guess, even when, if AI comes in and makes the job easier and easier. I still think that that job is gonna have a very wide range in what people are willing to pay. I do think there's gonna be photographers out there for four hundred dollars a day, five hundred dollars a day, and I also still think people are gonna be charging eight grand, twelve grand, twenty grand, fifty grand to shoot a wedding. I think I will never stop.
Speaker 1:You know, rich people like to spend money and I think they need to spend money to feel like they.
Speaker 1:They need to spend money to feel Well, there's like a trying to feel for you know, and they have so much money that it, like some people, will reach this status of, or this financial, this financial plateau where, hey, I will always have this amount of money Because I have this base amount of money and that's like invested so that returns all the money that I would make, plus more. All the time. It's like, basically, you can reach this place where you don't you know it doesn't. Money isn't a thing anymore.
Speaker 2:Yeah, now it's just, I just want the best, and so now it's like who?
Speaker 1:charges the most, because I think they must be the best, Be the best.
Speaker 2:It's exclusive right.
Speaker 2:Yeah and it's false. Like I've, I worked with some photographers that charged fifty thousand dollars and for for a wedding and and it was maybe more than just a wedding they might have done like some rehearsal or numbers they might have. You know, they did shoot the rehearsal dinner, they might have done some Sex work, like they might have gotten a lot of prints and they might have done some like engagement shoots leading up to and stuff like that. Whatever fucking 50 grand is 50 grand and I will say they were better than most like they were definitely some of the best photographers I've worked with, but they're not really better than a $12,000 photographer or an $8,000 photographer. What they're better at is like they understand the luxury market and the psychology behind that business. They're 30 years in. They have a lot of connections and they've worked really hard to build connections with the right planners. Like they figured out how to get you know it's kind of who you know and they figured out who to know and how to know them and and to be liked by them.
Speaker 2:I worked with a guy that tell me if you think this is a lie. I worked with a guy that Mostly he only does Indian weddings. He doesn't do American style weddings. He tells me every pet. His packages are usually about 12 to $20,000, most of his the things he sells. There are four to seven day shoots.
Speaker 1:I mean, it doesn't sound like he's lying.
Speaker 2:He also told me Okay, let me keep going. Let me keep going. He says In 2020, when COVID hit, he actually overbooked and booked everything he could. It was like the exact same thing that went on with me and Drake where we were afraid, we're he. Drake was afraid he was going to lose everything because of COVID, so he just booked every single email that came in and I'm.
Speaker 2:Drake guy said the same thing. He said he he shot Like 40 something weddings that year and he this is the part where I'm like I just don't believe you. He says he cleared $440,000 that year and he says that he pays a guy like $500 to edit his entire wedding video and then maybe like another 50 bucks to do a trailer. That just doesn't. How are you charging $20,000 and then somebody is editing it for you for 500 bucks? Like I've hired other editors so many times and then gotten them back and been like oh yeah, I have to redo all this by my work, by myself.
Speaker 2:The only time I've ever been able to use an editor where I was getting work that I could actually count on to help me and get it closer to what it was is when I had a full-time employee and he started as an intern and it took me half a year to get him to where I like to do it. You know what I mean? Like I had to really train him and it was a guy that had to come to my house all the time. But every time I've sent something out to somebody like we've paid $1,000, $1,500, whatever, and then gotten it back and been like oh, I have to delete this and start over from scratch because what they did is so bad that I can't save it and it would take me less time to just start from raw footage. I suppose there's editors out there, but are you gonna hire 100 of them before you find the good one and you're gonna be at $150,000?.
Speaker 1:Do you know how many weddings he shot?
Speaker 2:That year I think he said he did like 40, then yeah, it's possible 40 or 45 or something. It's possible.
Speaker 1:I mean, let's say, he charged, so I guess, if he got like $10,000 a wedding 40 times.
Speaker 2:Are there really that many fucking clients?
Speaker 1:If he did 20 weddings at 20,000, he'd have 400,000.
Speaker 2:That's fucking wild. It doesn't it blow your mind Cause like did? You've been in this business for like 15 years. You've never made half of it. But I also Doesn't it make you think like, oh God, I've done something horribly wrong?
Speaker 1:No, it makes me think that I didn't get into the Aspen market soon enough. It makes me think that I totally just ignored the fact that we had one of the most profitable cities in America, in Colorado, and I ignored it.
Speaker 2:Maybe we should move to.
Speaker 1:Aspen, or I never even thought that it, I don't know, I just never. I never booked one there, so then it just never even occurred to me. I don't know why I was like oh, I'm shooting bail. We know what's crazy is.
Speaker 2:I, before I ran out of business, I actually was shooting at Aspen about as much as I was shooting at Vail. And then when I started working with Drake I don't think he booked an Aspen wedding the whole two years I was with him and you kind of just started doing him right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, like when I first moved to town Like QCM, I've been doing it.
Speaker 2:I did two Aspen weddings like in the first year that I lived in Colorado and I didn't know it was a big deal at the time. But now that I know what you're charging there and when I know what Novelli charged there, I'm like fuck man, I missed it. I don't know. I just I was like ready to move past the industry and put it behind me. And now that I'm completely failing at other stuff, I'm just like I guess I'm gonna go back to my ex, which is the wedding industry.
Speaker 2:But it does kind of like when I work with people that charge a very high amount, it does kind of scramble my brain where I'm like could I be one of those guys If I had just kept or if I had never left Austin, like cause I was really fucking on a roll. I mean, I was doing really well in 2013. If I had just stayed in Austin, would I be getting $20,000 a wedding now? Could I still be that? Will it take me 10 years? And could I get there a lot faster with stills than I can with video? I think maybe.
Speaker 1:I think. I think there's just. I think you're always dealing with the in the wedding world. You're always dealing with the fact that there's people who will value photos more than video. I wonder if that's not changing a bit.
Speaker 2:But I don't think I mean it's a numbers game. There's way more people like every single wedding has a photographer.
Speaker 1:I will say people are, especially as the resolution of video starts to increase. People are, I think they're starting to think like oh there's, listen, there's. I think there will always be a demand for photography because it's something you can put on your wall, you know. But I think the value of video is increasing in a sense, and also decreasing simultaneously, in a sense.
Speaker 2:I think it's decreasing because it's more saturated than when I started and because, like, honestly, I feel like prices have barely changed, like as the as inflation has doubled and tripled, we've gone up like 10% in pricing and the economy has gone up like 300%, and how much fucking groceries and rent and shit costs. So it's like man, I feel like I don't know. There are some people that are doing it really well, but I don't know how to be one of them and the other. The truth is like I don't want to try with video, because I know how many hours it's gonna take to do post and I don't think that part of the job is gonna be fixed by AI anytime soon. I mean, maybe maybe in five years or something. I still think that part's gonna be real fucking hard and real hour intensive.
Speaker 2:If you want to do good work, I know there's a lot of people that don't spend a lot of time on it. Like I've met guys that are like, oh, I never spend more than like two days editing a wedding video, but then you see their work and I'm like, yeah, I can fucking tell it looks like dog shit. If I'm gonna do bad work, I'd rather just do photography because I don't care that much about it. I don't know. Part of why I want to get back into it is like I really want to find a way to earn a good living and have free time. Like I need to make a lot of money not a lot of money, but like a decent fucking you know, lower middle class income but also I want to be able to Shooting for the stars.
Speaker 2:Have the time to write and produce and fund my own micro budget feature films. I want to make a movie every single year and so I can't be a wedding videographer, because to be a wedding videographer, you edit every single fucking day of the year. To just barely make a profit With photography, I can double up the amount of shooting, like I could book as many inquiries as I get, because if I'm not spending five days a week editing, you know I don't mind going and shooting a wedding Friday and Saturday and Sunday. If I know that AI is gonna finish all of the editing before fucking lunch on Monday, then I still have Tuesday, wednesday and Thursday to write my movie and then I can still take off.
Speaker 1:November Listen.
Speaker 2:To shoot it, or December to shoot a movie, in January for every March to do all the post on it, and then I'm ready to go back into the season.
Speaker 1:You keep talking about AI doing all the editing. I'm gonna go pee and while I do that, I want you to explain to me. Oh, now we're on the Joe Rogan podcast.
Speaker 2:Because he pees all day.
Speaker 1:Everybody always pisses on that podcast, yeah it's like you can't go like a couple of hours. This is the first time I've ever done it during this one. Can you explain to me how?
Speaker 2:AI is doing the editing. No, I'm not gonna talk while you're not here. I'm still listening. Oh, you mean you're gonna listen Cause you're?
Speaker 1:okay, nobody will be able to hear me, but I can still hear you and I can still talk to you.
Speaker 2:All right. What is it that you want me to explain?
Speaker 1:How is AI?
Speaker 2:Well, you're not walking away from your own microphone.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:That just fell on the floor.
Speaker 1:No, it's fine.
Speaker 2:Just get the question out how is AI going to speed up editing and photo? Okay, so, first of all, I personally it is. First of all, I don't personally have experience with this. Okay, so I'm going off of what other professional photographers on YouTube are saying. And the guy that I worked with this weekend says he's doing all AI or whatever. There's maybe six at least kind of leading companies that are that are doing this. Some of them you pay for the software outright. Some of them you pay per image. But even when you pay per image, when you do the math on it, it's like maybe you're spending like $100, $150 per wedding or whatever. And so like the leading one I forget what it's called, but the one that like, because some of the like, if you go watch YouTube videos, photographers will say okay, you know, I've been a photographer for 15 years, whatever, and I recently I wanted to find out about AI editing. So I bought every single one of the softwares and I ran all these things through them to see like which one I like the most. And the one I liked the most was this one. And I pay about five or six cents per image, blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 2:First of all, what they'll do is you'll take your old work right. So if you've, if you've edited everything manually for a bunch of years, you take like an like 10 entire weddings or whatever and you load it into the AI. The AI analyzes everything that you've done and then learns what you like and then copies your style as far as, like how much saturation you like. You know typically how bright you make things like how do you tend to crop things like. It breaks all that shit down and copies it. Then it does the work for you in like Lightroom or whatever you're using. So it's not like you just get the image back and you're stuck with it. It's as though an editor came through and preselected all the settings or whatever. So you still are looking at it in Lightroom and you can tweak it All right. Then the other thing that's wild is, let's say, you're kind of like newer and you don't know what the fuck you're doing, or you just want to have different looks or whatever.
Speaker 2:There are certain celebrity photographers that you can get basically the AI version of them. Like they've gone like here's you know, 20,000 of my images. Ai study that and now I can download that profile and now all my work looks like this famous photographer's work. Or if you're willing to disclose to your clients that you're using AI for post, you could bring your clients in for a consultation and then you can sit there and look at like, hey, here's 30 of the world's most sought after photographers, whose work do you like? And then they go like, oh, I really like this one. Then I'll go, okay, I'll use that, I'll use AI to make all your look like this photographer.
Speaker 2:Then it's really just about am I cool to be around and comforting on set? Am I, you know, on your wedding day? Am I bringing a lot of stress to the room or am I cool and laid back? Am I knowing where to put the lights? Am I, you know, getting through the pictures in a timely manner, the group portraits and stuff like that. Like, are we getting everything that you want? You know what I mean. Like it becomes more and more about just the shooting, and then you know you still can go through and tweak and stuff.
Speaker 2:Now there's other AI things that are not just for, like, lightroom editing, that are fully on retouching, and those ones it seems like they're they're getting better, but they're still like not great and some of them are like way over the top, like super high fashion or whatever, and that's not really what you want. You really just want to like deal with like fly away hairs and you know, maybe brightening the eyes and you know, maybe if you're bright as a big pimple and she's mortified by you, don't worry, I'll make it go away, that kind of thing. But yeah, so people basically upload their raw to oh, and it does calling also not just editing, so it can look at like oh, here's, here's send 10 images that are basically the same photo. Which one is the best? This one seems like you probably would pick this one because it's the most in focus and you probably would pick this one is the nicest mile, blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 2:So anyway, you load in. You know, say you've taken 4000 photos. You'll load it in and it'll be like all right, here's the 700 best images and we've already pre colored them and you know edit them the way you normally do. So then you just sit there for an hour and you just scroll through and if you see anything you really don't like, then you can change it. And if you want to pick out, you know, 20 photos for your blog or whatever, then those can be the 20 that you sit there and go like all right, I guess I'll spend a whole hour like really thinking hard about these and make sure these ones are perfect. But like, yeah, I mean, look, like I said I don't have the experience, but the testimonies from people on YouTube and people on forums are like, yeah, you just spent three days editing, now I uploaded into AI and it's done in an hour and I don't think we're going to have something like that on the video side. Not that can be comparable to my work for probably several years, but we'll see. But that but that.
Speaker 2:The other thing is is I would. I would use this workflow from day one. So I'm not gonna be like I'm not gonna be out there doing everything the old-fashioned way and like pouring fucking you know, dozens of hours into all my posts or whatever, and then after I book a bunch of clients, pull the rug out from under them. I'm gonna start using AI from the beginning and build my brand on that, where I'm doing a wedding for $500 or whatever, and then kind of grow as you know, grow from there so that by the time I like get that name and all that stuff like I'll feel confident that, like you all know what you're buying. You've seen my website. You've seen my portfolio. This is what it is. What do you? Everything I? You always want to know what I'm thinking, and then you always laugh at me.
Speaker 1:You know what I was thinking and what you know how old ladies who are like really rich, they always seem to be wearing those like oval glasses with really thick, like red frames.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah.
Speaker 1:Maybe you should get some of those.
Speaker 2:All right, I tell you what dude.
Speaker 1:I tell you what.
Speaker 2:If you buy them for me, I'm your Uncle Barry.
Speaker 1:Maybe that's why you're not getting enough work your glasses aren't square enough and they're not thick enough and black enough. Interesting, you have to look like. Who's that dude from Jurassic Park?
Speaker 2:Oh. I know what you're talking about Life, Um what's his name?
Speaker 1:Finds away. Come on, yeah, he was in Friends. What's his name?
Speaker 2:That's right, yeah, yeah, the fly. I can't think of it. It's driving me nuts Fuck.
Speaker 1:Oh, come on, it's on the tip of my tongue, gold bloom, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, okay Good.
Speaker 2:I should look more like Jeff Goldblum. Yeah, um, you know. And then the other wild thing is like, let's say, let's say I go balls of the wall into photography for a couple of years and then I start building up to where I'm like getting a pretty solid price. I could then start offering photo video packages. I actually think the easiest way to book videography is to be a photographer.
Speaker 1:Why would you want to?
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, if I could get to photography.
Speaker 1:You're walking around with two cameras on you. Why would you want to introduce all that stress? I mean for a very large price For large prices. Yeah, I guess if you just hired, if you subcontracted a videographer, that'd be fine. You wouldn't want to be charged. No, I would subcontract.
Speaker 2:I would subcontract a photographer. Probably I would tell the client like I'm doing both, but really I would be doing all the video work and then it would be easier to subcontract the photographer, just because? Any idiot can be a photographer.
Speaker 1:What if? That comment right, there just ended the photography industry.
Speaker 2:I mean, listen, I have felt that way for a long time and it will be interesting for me to get in there and find out. Maybe in a year I'll be like maybe. I'll be like, I'm like man photography actually is way harder than I always thought, but maybe after like a year I'll be like dude. I should have done this 15 years ago. It's so fucking easy.
Speaker 1:I think with practice. I think, with practice you'll find that it's easier.
Speaker 2:I think so too, because I've seen people that I'm like.
Speaker 1:You're such a wimp in life, but I know you're making more money than me at this wedding and it makes me angry.
Speaker 2:Think about how many photographers make a really good amount of money and they're basically like they're not even full-time workers. They have a spouse that earned enough that photography was a hobby for them.
Speaker 1:That's also part of the problem, though.
Speaker 2:And they're like I'm doing it, I'm shooting like 15 weddings a year and I do all my edits in two days and it's like okay, so you work 40 days a year and you're making four times as much money as me.
Speaker 1:Sometimes I think they are not making as much money as you might think.
Speaker 2:I think that about video people too. That guy that told me he made $440,000, I think he's lying.
Speaker 1:I think he's flying a fucking line. Okay, I mean he shot 40,. First of all, how the fuck is he shooting?
Speaker 2:seven day packages and then paying somebody $500 to edit that and the clients are happy with what they're getting back from editing. How do you edit seven days worth of footage for?
Speaker 1:fucking $500?. I will say this that doesn't even seem possible. I've had a guy work for me before and I've had multiple people work for me, but I'm thinking of one in particular where I haven't really gotten any negative feedback about their work and I'm like I didn't like their work. And I didn't get any negative feedback and I was like, how can I? I thought for sure I was going to get negative feedback and I hadn't gotten any and I was like, how is this even possible? How is this?
Speaker 2:possible.
Speaker 1:Like, you guys saw my website and you saw what I gave you and this is way different. Like how is this possible? People do not have the same eye that we have. Yeah, I mean, I think part of why I wasn't Just because they choose you as their photographer or videographer does not mean that they have the same eye as you. They just don't.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think part of why I have not been as profitable as I'd like to be is because I did everything to my standard and didn't really appreciate that I could get away with so much less. Yeah, that's how it always is. I kind of learned that from I learned that on the shooting side that's every industry, though, mark. Cuban.
Speaker 1:I remember a quote from Shark Tank, and I'm not sure if Mark Cuban was the first to say it, probably not. But he said, like profession is the enemy of profitability, or something like that I've heard it is Perfection is the enemy of. I've heard it is. I've heard it is the enemy of progress.
Speaker 2:but okay, profit too Sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So that's why I'm like hey, one of the reasons why I think I might be more successful as a stills photographer is because I'm not passionate about it. Like I saw videography as a means to become a great filmmaker, and I see photography as a means to earn some fucking money so that I have money to spend on becoming a great filmmaker, like I'm. You know what I'm saying. Like I see this Like I thought when I was a videographer, I thought that was art and as a photographer, I only see it as a business. And that's why, like, from day one, I'm going to outsource 100% of my editing and if I find out that AI can't do a good enough job for me, then I'll still outsource it to somewhere like shootedit, where you just, you know, you email it off and they send it back.
Speaker 2:Like I'm going to be committed to what's the? I'm just chasing day rates. I'm really just trying to how many, like how good of a day rate can I get? And then how many of them can I get so that I can have my fucking life back too? I don't know, I think that I'll have. I think, if I go into this, I'm going to have a much more business-minded approach this time around and then in a few years I'll be so successful I'll start offering video packages and then I'll lose everything. I've seen it happen. I've seen photographers be really successful and then decide to expand and that's like hey, you know, one half of your business is pulling the other half of your business down like drastically. Like you were more successful before you started offering video and now that you're doing both, you're actually in debt instead of having surplus.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it seems like a massive mistake that people make is to expand their offerings because it's the 80-20% rule in reverse, where you're like, oh, I've decided to do this other thing as well and now it takes way more time and it's only 20% of my business and it's just. Yeah, it's a mistake.
Speaker 2:So to me I think it makes it way better on the booking side, but then on the workload and management side, I think, and the profitability side, I think you actually lose your ass.
Speaker 1:And stress side.
Speaker 2:And the stress side and the quality control, like there's only so much you can you can keep your hands on. Anyway, hopefully, hopefully, the show that I'm about to start will go well, and then the guy I'm working for will get another show and then he'll bring me on that and then another one, and then I'll meet somebody and they'll bring me on a different show with them and before you know it, I'm actually doing the whole fucking thing I moved here for and I never become a photographer, but I just I don't. I don't think it's going to happen. I don't know. I'm not feeling hopeful.
Speaker 1:Hmm, hmm.
Speaker 2:So that's what's up.
Speaker 1:That's what's up. All right, man, did you see any before we go? Did you see any movie trailers that you liked during the old Super Bowl?
Speaker 2:So I went to a Super Bowl party and I had a really hard time hearing and paying attention and stuff like it was. It was like a giant surround sound system turned up so fucking loud it's going to make your ears bleed and then everybody's screaming over it. Hmm, to a point where it was like I don't know, I started feeling a little autistic in there. I was just like I was just like overstimulated, like a hard time fucking paying attention. I feel like I barely I barely was able to follow any commercials at all.
Speaker 2:I did notice like I've been criticizing Super Bowl commercials for the last couple of years because it got to a place where every fucking Super Bowl commercial was a downer, like they were all just so fucking Just depressing and it was. You know it was a kid getting killed by a drunk driver and I don't know it. Just like it was a lot of fucking really sad PSAs and you know it was just a lot of like we'll get this, we'll get through this together and we're here for you and these tough, tough, tough awful times that we're living in. You know I didn't see all that this year, so I was like OK, but I don't know if anything really made me laugh. I kind of like the, I kind of like the one with Ben Affleck, the Duncan commercial, you know, or they're in the studio. I thought that was kind of fun.
Speaker 1:But I actually missed that one.
Speaker 2:But it. But I missed half the dialogue on it. So this was the other thing. So I went to a party the Super Bowl party that my friend invited me to, that I know from, I mean, I would say, the film industry. He's not really in this tree. He moved here at the same time as me and he has. He has like a corporate video job and he makes short films and stuff for fun.
Speaker 2:And anyway, it was a lot of people there that were kind of film nerds and stuff and I don't know it was a makeup or it was a costume, or there was another DP there that just moved here and was asking me what's the trick to getting work? And I was like the trick to getting work is you have to fucking constantly fly back to where you came from, because that's the only way I made money last year. And he's like, yeah, me too, dude, I have to go back to Florida every week. Yeah, nobody should live in Atlanta, it's a lie, but anyway. So when the game went into overtime I looked around and realized me and my wife were the only ones still watching the game, like literally only ones there.
Speaker 2:The host left like went to bed, like the people that hosted the party went to bed. Everybody else got in the car and went home, and I'm, like you know, it's like 45 minutes from my house, so if I go home I'm going to miss the end of the game, but I'm also the only person that went to that party. That's a legitimate football fan Like I fucking love football. I'm not going to miss the overtime of the fucking Super Bowl. That's just not going to happen. So it's just just me sitting in a guy's living room watching the game while he's asleep with his wife in the back room, and nobody else was there. Fucking, really awkward. I probably will not. I probably should have just stayed home and watched the game by myself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I just have to deal with them.
Speaker 1:People do, people will find every excuse not to watch it. I did enjoy the Pluto TV couch potato commercials. We grow couch potatoes that. You should look up that on YouTube. It's pretty funny All right, it's.
Speaker 2:My wife was saying maybe at some point she wants to see like best, like a, you know, like a like. Maybe we could go on YouTube and find all the Super Bowl commercials.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, there's got to be like a top 10 or whatever.
Speaker 2:Yeah, top 10, top 20 or whatever. Oh yeah, I'm sure there's one and the other thing is they all have extended versions too, like every 30 second commercial. You go look it up online and it's like original director's cut and it's like five and a half minutes and you're like oh this is kind of also losing some of its.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm not really looking for a short film.
Speaker 1:And I like the Pluto TV. Like most of the ideas don't warrant more than 30 seconds.
Speaker 2:No, it's like you know I get the joke in 30 seconds.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but yeah, probably going to check that out. I'll probably end up seeing that twisters movie.
Speaker 1:Not going to lie, oh yeah, I will too. I was a big fan of tornadoes when I was a kid. But I am really annoyed.
Speaker 2:I'm really annoyed that the studios won't make anything new Although maybe I shouldn't be, because it seems that I'm the best I'll ever be able to do is independent. So maybe I should fucking be happy that, like hey, they're leaving us a real reason to exist, which is that we're the only ones that are going to be willing to tell a new story, and maybe at some point will you, you know, cut through. Well, all right, good yawn, there you go. That was a good episode.
Speaker 1:I'm going to hit. It wasn't, but that's okay, I'm going to be like it.
Speaker 2:So I will only do it, you know, just because I think you'd stop talking to me If we do that, so we might get 30 downloads this week bro. Bro Never know.
Speaker 1:Sometimes I feel like this podcast is good for us, because it makes sure we talk to each other.
Speaker 2:But then sometimes I feel like, how about if we wanted to do the podcast? I'd feel more free to call you more often. I think that's what.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it saves us time.
Speaker 2:See, I would rather talk to you, for 15 minutes every other day Instead of talk to you for one hour in a row only about my fucking dog shit career. Well, I'd rather talk to you for like 10 minutes, you know, like every other day, instead of talk to you for an hour in a row. And it's the same. And it's the same fucking conversation every week Weddings fucking suck. I don't know what I'm doing.
Speaker 1:I want to make movies, but I'm poor.
Speaker 2:Whatever has anybody emailed our email, that you do put that in the stinger for every episode, right? Please email us at blah blah blah. Yeah, it's an. It runs automatically. It's like a mid role, so it goes in the middle of the show. Okay, and not one email I emailed us once just to make sure it works.
Speaker 1:I'm not sure, I'm not sure, I'm not sure.
Speaker 2:I'm just trying to remind myself of a topic.
Speaker 1:All right, I'll see you next week Later.